Thursday, December 7, 2017

The Logical Case for The Rock of Jesus Christ

  • We have nothing to say to those who have taken the Holy Ghost for their guide; they have no need for any mortal to teach them.
  • Therefore the written guide and standard is only for those who have not yet received the Holy Ghost.
  • The only thing we have to offer them that is of any benefit to them is how to receive the Holy Ghost, which is the channel by which the Lord informs men of his work, and is the means by which the Lord leads men unto salvation, the greatest of blessings.
  • The way to receive the Holy Ghost is to repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in the name of Christ by one of his sent servants.
  • Believing the Sermon as literally as a little child would understand the words therein is to become as a little child.
  • Doing always the works commanded in the Sermon while trusting the Lord above all defines repentance.
  • For me to teach more than these things to those who have not received the Holy Ghost, without a direct commandment from God to me, is to usurp the role of the Holy Ghost - deciding myself what others should know or do, becoming their guide, bringing them to trust in me - and would curse, harm, and misinform, and does not fulfill the Lord's requirements.
  • For me to teach less than these things will not enable men to receive the Holy Ghost and will not bless, benefit, nor inform those who know nothing of the Lord's work, and does not fulfill the Lord's requirements.

Wednesday, December 6, 2017

That They May Stumble

Jacob 4:14-16
[T]he Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble. [B]y the stumbling of the Jews they will reject the stone upon which they might build and have safe foundation. But behold, according to the scriptures, this stone shall become the great, and the last, and the only sure foundation, upon which the Jews can build.
The Jews rejected and killed the prophets, despised plain words, and sought for things which they could not understand. So God took away his plainness and gave them many things that they could not understand, because they wanted it; and because they wanted it, God did it, that they could stumble. And this stumbling caused them to reject Jesus Christ, his gospel and his rock and his salvation, the only sure foundation upon which can be built.

The blindness of the Jews came by looking beyond the mark. Sin means "to miss the mark," according to the concordances. James tells us that sin is transgression of the law. If transgression of the law is to miss the mark, then the mark the Jews looked beyond was the law and commandments of God. They weren't interested in the plainly stated message of repentance and faith in God, therefore they did not obtain nor were they led by the Holy Ghost.

The Jews wanted to know what the future held in part for the purpose of making a profit, and they wanted to know about the ordinances of God as part of their conceit as the covenant people of the Lord. So God, by the prophets whom the people had rejected, told the people of the coming of the Lord, the redemption of Israel, the establishment of Zion, and the millennial reign of Christ. They spoke of priesthoods, powers, authority, endowments, and anointings. These were things the people couldn't understand, because they lacked the Holy Ghost, because they would not keep the commandments given in plainness. God gave the people what they wanted once they rejected the prophets' initial message of repentance.

The prophets know they are giving people things which will bring them to stumble and fall. As the Lord said to Isaiah:
Isaiah 6:9-12
And [the Lord] said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, and the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
Isaiah taught repentance, and gave the covenant people things they could not understand, and they eventually killed him.

One can see this pattern in the ministry of Jesus Christ himself. His first message to the people was the gospel: his doctrine and his law and commandments - the Sermon on the Mount. Once they heard the gospel, he taught in parables which the many unrighteous - which means disobedient - could not understand, while fully explaining them to the few righteous - the obedient. He gave hard sayings which offended the unbelieving and did not explain them even to the righteous. Eventually his covenant people killed him.

So when you hear the prophets speak of priesthoods and powers and authority and orders of angels and other matters of the unseen heavens and rites and the coming of Zion and the latter-day temple and the millennial reign of the Lord, it means the people have rejected the prophets' message of repentance and faith in Christ, and God is giving them what they want, so that they can stumble and fall.

The first message a prophet brings, to turn away from wickedness and keep the commandments of God, is the most important. If that message is rejected, so is the prophet.

Listen to the Lord's words through Ezekiel.
Ezekiel 33:30-32
As for you, son of man, your people are talking together about you by the walls and at the doors of the houses, saying to each other, ‘Come and hear the message that has come from the LORD.’ My people come to you, as they usually do, and sit before you to hear your words, but they do not put them into practice. With their lips they profess to love, but their hearts follow the profits. Indeed, to them you are nothing more than one who sings love songs with a beautiful voice and plays an instrument well, for they hear your words but do not put them into practice.
Even while acclaiming him as an "authorized servant," a "true messenger," they rejected Ezekiel's teachings.

We're doing it now. The first message was the one that mattered.

The Way Mutual Agreement Works

In a request for "clarification" on what he meant by "mutual agreement," the Lord said: "As between one another, you choose to not dispute."  If there are no dissenting voices, then we are mutually agreed to a proposition.  The only "votes" that matter are the dissenters', if there are any.

This simplifies the matter of determining when we as a body are mutually agreed: when nobody publicly dissents.  Silence is assent with this "clarification" from the Lord.  We need not track down every covenant participant to poll them for their agreement; all those who care are already participating.

However, the majority faction decided this meant that they could feign that the body had mutual agreement to the majority proposal so long as the majority declines to speak with the dissenters.

In reality, if you choose not to dispute adopting a proposal, such as The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles, you signify your agreement with it.

In other words, mutual agreement works exactly the opposite of the way the majority faction purports to understand it.  When the majority faction gives the silent treatment to the dissenters, they are agreeing with the dissenters' position, which then carries the dissenters' proposal, which in my case is the adoption of The Rock of Jesus Christ, which is the gospel of Jesus Christ, as our sole written guide and standard.

If you abide the Lord's requirements, you shall not get the G&S you want, but you shall get the G&S you need, and the body may be saved.

If you do not abide the Lord's requirements, you shall get the G&S you want, but you shall not get the G&S you need, and the body cannot be saved.

If you do choose to dispute the adoption of The Rock of Jesus Christ, then come, humble yourselves and discuss openly and publicly as equals, as befits the covenant people of God, at a neutral forum provided for this purpose: http://remnantofjacobforum.com/viewforum.php?f=37  Make your reasoning and your name known to the body.  For surely the covenant people of the Lord must have a strong reason to reject the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ as our written guide and standard.

Thus far, there has been no consistent dissent against adopting The Rock of Jesus Christ.

If you choose not to dispute the adoption of The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles as our written guide and standard, then publish it in the scriptures and let us move on to other tasks the Lord may lay upon us.

Jared Livesey

Tuesday, December 5, 2017

Come, Humble Yourselves to Openly Discuss the G&S as Equals

All covenant participants who desire to participate in the discussion about the adoption of the guide and standard which the Lord requires of us are still invited to do so at a neutral forum provided for this purpose.

The forum provided for this purpose is a subforum of http://remnantofjacobforum.com/

The subforum is entitled "Governing Principles Discussion" and is found here: http://remnantofjacobforum.com/viewforum.php?f=37

You will have to register to participate.

Jared Livesey

Monday, December 4, 2017

Many Are Called, but Few Are Chosen

The Lord will have a people who hold his word inviolable.
LDS D&C 98:14-15 I will prove you in all things, whether you will abide in my covenant, even unto death, that you may be found worthy. For if ye will not abide in my covenant ye are not worthy of me.
The word "require" is synonymous with "command" in the context in which the Lord spoke of the G&S (A&C, p. 8).
JST Matthew 16:27 Break not my commandments for to save your lives; for whosoever will save his life in this world, shall lose it in the world to come.
A Word on Mutual Agreement

The Lord said: "I require a statement of principles to be adopted by the mutual agreement of my people, for if you cannot do so you will be unable to accomplish other works that I will require at your hands" (A&C, p. 8).

The phrase mutual agreement means that all parties agree.  If one of the parties dissents from a proposal, then the parties do not have mutual agreement on that proposal.  Another way of saying this is that the parties do not agree to the proposal.

The Lord requires us, as a people, to write a G&S and adopt it by mutual agreement.   If even one party to the covenant dissents from a proposed G&S, then that proposal cannot be adopted because it is not mutually agreed to.  Mutual agreement means that the majority cannot impose upon the minority that which the minority does not agree to, and therefore all must discuss in plain humility as equals.  Only when all parties mutually agree can the body move upon any proposal.

The mutual agreement requirement is freedom from the tyranny of the majority, and a check against mass error.  At least, that is what would happen if the Lord's requirement were honored.

The Scripture and G&S Committees have announced that they will not hold the Lord's requirement for mutual agreement inviolable, but have instead dictated to the body that the G&S shall be adopted by "the voice of the people," which is another name for "majority rules."  Now there is no need to persuade dissenters, or be persuaded by dissenters, so long as a faction has a majority of votes.  Thus we now have reintroduced the tyranny of the majority, and removed the Lord's check upon mass error.

Instead of letting the Lord control the process by the requirements he has set forth in the A&C, the Scripture and G&S Committees have declared they shall control the process of adopting a G&S and have usurped authority to declare certain G&S proposals unacceptable and remove the ability of the body to adopt them.  Among these G&S proposals which the Committees have deprived the people the opportunity of accepting is the gospel of Jesus Christ, his rock and his salvation.

Along with bringing the tyranny of the majority upon us and removing the Lord's check upon mass error, we are rejecting the gospel of Jesus Christ as our guide and standard as well.  All this is due to those in high places among us, the Scripture and G&S Committees, who have taken control of the G&S process, usurped authority, and perverted the requirement of the Lord.

When Denver Snuffer was excommunicated, he had this to say:
The Church has Doctrine and Covenants 121, verses 36 to 40, to warn it about abusing His authority. There is an "amen" or end to authority when control, compulsion, and dominion are exercised in any degree of unrighteousness. Therefore, when using authority, great care must be taken. In any case, the church was careless. Therefore, those involved, are now left to kick against the pricks, to persecute the Saints and to fight against God. 
Section 121 is a warning to church leaders. It is addressing the powerful, not the powerless. It is addressing those who occupy the seats of authority over others. Only those who claim the right to control, compel, and exercise dominion, are warned against persecuting the saints, who believe the religion and practice it as I did from the time of my conversion. My excommunication was an abuse of authority. Therefore, as soon as the decision was made, the Lord terminated the priesthood authority of the stake presidency and every member of the High Council who sustained this decision, which was unanimous. Thereafter, I appealed to the First Presidency, outlining the involvement of the 12 and the 70. The appeal gave notice to them all. The appeal was summarily denied. 
Last general conference, the entire First Presidency, the 12, the 70, and all other general authorities and auxiliaries, voted to sustain those who abused their authority in casting me out of the church. At that moment, the Lord ended all claims of the church of Jesus  Christ of Latter-day Saints, to claim it is led by the priesthood. They have not practiced what He requires. The Lord has brought about His purposes. This has been in His heart all along. He has chosen to use small means to accomplish it, but He always uses the smallest of means to fulfill His purposes. 
None of this was my doing. The Lord's strange act, was not, could not, be planned by me. Was not, could not, have been controlled by me. It was not anticipated by me, or even understood by me, until after the Lord had accomplished His will, and made it  apparent to me on the evening of May 1, 2014. He alone has done this. He is the author  of all of this.
Now, the G&S and Scripture Committees are treading the same path as the authorities of the Church.  They, like the Church authorities before them, are not practicing what the Lord requires, and they are forcibly preventing the body from practicing what the Lord requires.

If the G&S and Scripture Committees do what they say they are going to do, then the body cannot be saved.

Joseph Smith taught the following.
I ... spoke to the people, showing them that to get salvation we must not only do some things, but everything which God has commanded. Men may preach and practice everything except those things which God commands us to do, and will be damned at last. We may tithe mint and rue, and all manner of herbs, and still not obey and teach others to obey God in just what He tells us to do. It mattereth not whether the principle is popular or unpopular, I will always maintain a true principle, even if I stand alone in it. (Feb. 21, 1844.) DHC 6:223.
Thus, the body, not being able to do all that God commands due to the disobedience of those in high places among us, cannot be saved.

Only as individuals who are faithful to all things the Lord commands and requires will any from the body be able to be saved.
It is not enough to receive my covenant, but you must also abide it. And all who abide it, whether on this land or any other land, will be mine and I will watch over them and protect them in the day of harvest, and gather them in as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. I will number you among the remnant of Jacob, no longer outcasts, and you will inherit the promises of Israel. You shall be my people and I will be your God and the sword will not devour you. And unto those who will receive will more be given until they know the mysteries of God in full (A&C, p. 7).
May there be any faithful found among us at the end of all this.

Wednesday, November 29, 2017

Failure to Agree Is Not Opposition.

Remember: you don't have to agree - not with me, not with anyone.
Failure to agree is not opposition.
Opposition is opposition.
Contending against something is opposition.
Explaining why you don't agree is not contention.
You don't have to oppose to not agree.
You can simply not agree.

Without mutual agreement, no G&S which gets adopted fulfills the Lord's requirement.
We have no announced time limit to come to mutual agreement.

And I dissent from any proposal save it be The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles.

Monday, November 27, 2017

I Dissent

As of today, 11/27/2017, I hereby formally dissent from each and every G&S proposal pursuant to the A&C both past, present, and future, save one: The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles.

I have posted explanations for The Rock of Jesus Christ, and have invited one and all to come and humble yourselves as equals, and reason together openly and publicly concerning this matter in a forum provided for this purpose: http://remnantofjacobforum.com/viewforum.php?f=37.  You are all still invited to do so.

It is not my purpose to make you move, for if you move only unwillingly, then you do not agree in your heart even if you feign agreement with your lips.  I will explain why we must all stand on The Rock of Jesus Christ to those who seek an explanation in humility as equals, both openly and publicly, for only if you are persuaded will you move on your own.

Your servant,

Jared Livesey

Sunday, November 26, 2017

Where It All Went Wrong

2 Nephi 32:5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.
All must come unto me or they cannot be saved. And how do men come unto me? It is by faith, repentance, and baptism, which bring the Holy Ghost to then show you all things you must know (A&C, p. 3).
So, the Holy Ghost, given to us when we exercise faith in Jesus, repent from all our sins, and are baptized, shows us everything we should do, and everything we should know.  If one takes the Holy Ghost for their guide, they have no need for any mortal to teach them, as John noted (1 John 2:20, 27).

Where did the Church go wrong?
If the gentiles unto whom the Book of Mormon was given had hearkened unto the Holy Ghost they would have come unto me in Hyrum and Joseph’s day. But they did not hearken, and would not allow me to abide with them in word, and in power and in very deed (A&C, p. 3).
They did not listen to the Holy Ghost, which would have told them all that they should know and all that they should do.  Who were they listening to?

In a citation from The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 237, we find the following account:
President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel--said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church--that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls--applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall--that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves, envious towards the innocent, while they afflict the virtuous with their shafts of envy.
Instead of listening to the Holy Ghost, they listened to Joseph Smith, who, while a prophet, was yet a man.

So, what’s the lesson we should learn from the Church?
Jeremiah 17:5 ¶ Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
2 Nephi 4:34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.
2 Nephi 28:31 [Thus saith the Lord:] Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.
The lesson we should learn from the Church is that trusting in a man, even if that man is a prophet, leads to cursings and condemnations by the Lord, and that we should instead take the Holy Ghost for our guide.

In a passage from Denver Snuffer, we read the following:
If you understood the scriptures you wouldn’t even need what I’ve written.  http://denversnuffer.com/2010/06/be-still-and-know-that-i-am-god/
And how do we become able to understand the scriptures?  In another passage from Denver Snuffer, we read this:
The journey back to Him begins with all He has provided and preserved of His word. It begins for each of us in the scriptures. One of the immediate effects of baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost is to have the scriptures come alive; to have them overwhelm you with revelation, light and truth. It is not you doing this. It is you experiencing it, but the Holy Spirit opening and lighting them so the same Spirit which gave them at first now receives them in you.  http://denversnuffer.com/2012/08/bfhg-part-2/
So, it is the Holy Ghost which gives us power to understand the scriptures.

According to Denver Snuffer, if you took the Holy Ghost for your guide, you wouldn’t need Denver Snuffer.  It seems then that following a man, even a man who is a prophet, is the behavior of people who have not taken the Holy Ghost for their guide.
LDS D&C 100:17-18
17 Behold, you have my gospel before you, and my rock, and my salvation.
18 Ask the Father in my name in faith, believing that you shall receive, and you shall have the Holy Ghost, which manifesteth all things which are expedient unto the children of men.

Monday, November 20, 2017

Answers to Questions about Founded Upon the Rock of Jesus Christ

Spelling as in original; the topic is this post: Founded Upon the Rock of Jesus Christ

1. Do we really need to target people who don't like to read? 

I am dealing with the world as it is, not as I wish it were.  There are many who speak English as a second language, have reading problems, and so on, and their souls are precious to us.

2. Are we really trying to "sell" this to non-members (making it appeal to anyone who has a bible, etc.)

No.  We're not trying to "sell," but to inform.  We're trying to communicate with everyone.  Therefore, as the Lord does, we are going to speak to them using their language to their understanding.

3.  Wouldn't it be important to inform outsiders of things unique to and important to the movement as it relates to things they are not familiar with in addition to letting them know it is grounded in the words of Christ they are familiar with?

The only thing that matters is giving outsiders the means to receive the Holy Ghost, which will teach them all that they must know and all that they must do.  The way men obtain the Holy Ghost is by unfeigned belief in the words of Jesus Christ contained in the Sermon, repentance from all sin as taught in the Sermon, and baptism by one of his sent servants, which brings the visitation of the Holy Ghost, which shows them all that they must know and all that they must do.  Since the Holy Ghost shows men all that they must know and all that they must do, none of the things "unique" and "important" to "this movement" matter.  We have nothing relevant left to say to those who have taken the Holy Spirit to be their guide.  However, if The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles is adopted, nobody in any fellowship anywhere can be prevented from taking it upon themselves to teach whatever they feel is "unique" and "important" to "this movement."  Those who do so take personal responsibility for their teachings and their effects.  And they cannot make anyone in any other fellowship follow nor teach after their preferences.

4. In one place you wrote, "As we are trying to save men by our labors..." (isn't this proselytizing?)

No.  Those who believe the Sermon as literally as a little child would and repent of all their sins and will be baptized shall receive the Holy Ghost which teaches them all that they should know and all that they should do.  Those who believe and are baptized shall be saved.  Those who do not believe shall be damned.  We aren't trying to add members to our fellowships.  If the Holy Ghost leads men to fellowship with us, well and good.  If the Holy Ghost leads them to depart from our company, also well and good.  That's between them and God.

5. Is that really up to us?

Yes.  

2 Nephi 26:27 Hath he commanded any that they should not partake of his salvation? Behold I say unto you, Nay; but he hath given it free for all men; and he hath commanded his people that they should persuade all men to repentance.  

We're supposed to be numbered among his covenant people, and his covenant people are defined by their repentance from all sin (2 Nephi 30:2; Helaman 14:13), and their love for him and the keeping of all his commandments (LDS D&C 29:12).  That was the point of the covenant offered through Denver Snuffer.  Therefore we are commanded to persuade all men to repentance inasmuch as we style ourselves the covenant people of the Lord.  Repentance is believing the Sermon as literally as a child would understand it and conforming your thoughts and behavior to the law and principles contained within - that is, keeping all the Lord's commandments.  One will only do all that if they truly believe and trust that the Lord is really there and will protect and reward those who do what he says.  Our obligation is to persuade men to believe and trust in the Lord and keep all his commandments that they may receive the Holy Ghost which will teach them all that they must do and all that they must know.

6.  Why not, rather, "As we seek to persuade..."

Because I am pointing out the purpose for which we labor: the salvation of souls.  After all...

D&C 18:10-18
10 Remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God;
11 For, behold, the Lord your Redeemer suffered death in the flesh; wherefore he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him.
12 And he hath risen again from the dead, that he might bring all men unto him, on conditions of repentance.
13 And how great is his joy in the soul that repenteth!
14 Wherefore, you are called to cry repentance unto this people.
15 And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father!
16 And now, if your joy will be great with one soul that you have brought unto me into the kingdom of my Father, how great will be your joy if you should bring many souls unto me!
17 Behold, you have my gospel before you, and my rock, and my salvation.
18 Ask the Father in my name in faith, believing that you shall receive, and you shall have the Holy Ghost, which manifesteth all things which are expedient unto the children of men.

7.  [if you do want to sell something, why not offer something they are not convinced they already have?]

We're not trying to "sell" the gospel.  If we are "selling" the gospel - manipulating men by their emotions rather than pure truth in power by the Spirit - we aren't the Lord's people but pretenders to his faith.  

We're announcing the conditions whereby men may receive the Holy Ghost, which will teach them all that they must know and all that they must do, which is our true guide, and explaining that the law and commandments of the Lord are our standard and our principles.  Joseph once wrote, in the first FAQ for the LDS Church back in 1838, the following.

First--"Do you believe the Bible?"

If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do.

Second--"Wherein do you differ from other sects?"

In that we believe the Bible, and all other sects profess to believe their interpretations of the Bible, and their creeds.

Third--"Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"

Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness (TPJS, p.119).

Joseph was quite clear in his teachings that by "believe the Bible" he meant "believe the words of the Bible literally."  

"Everything that we have not a key word to, we will take it as it reads" (TWoJS, p. 187).

"What is the rule of interpretation?  Just no interpretation at all.  Understand it precisely as it reads" (TPJS, p. 276).

Part of the point of The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles is to inform those who know nothing of the Lord's work that we believe the Lord's doctrine, his law and commandments.  If we do not believe the Bible and the Book of Mormon, but transfigure the scriptures in the same manner as apostate Christendom, then indeed we have nothing others should be interested in.  They should, in fact, run away from us as fast as possible and await others who will faithfully fulfill the Lord's commandment to persuade all men to repentance, because we will have failed in the Lord's commission by our own rejection of his commandments and will merit our imminent fate with the rest of the Gentiles.

8.  Again I'm not convinced this document's purpose is to "bring outsiders into our movement"

I absolutely agree we should not bring outsiders into our movement with this document.  The Lord in the covenant answer said the document is for us, the covenant participants, "to follow," and it is also "to bless, benefit, and inform" those who know nothing of the Lord's work now underway.  It is the role of the Holy Ghost to teach men all that they should know and do.  We should, therefore, give men sufficient information to obtain the Holy Ghost.  Then they can know all they need to know about the Lord's work now underway, and follow the Holy Ghost into the movement, or the Holy Ghost may lead them elsewhere.  We should not usurp the role of the Holy Ghost.  The guidance of the Holy Ghost is the key to being blessed, benefited, and informed.  It is the Holy Ghost which shows men all that they should know and all that they should do.  Since the Holy Ghost will tell men all they should know and all they should do, without a direct commandment otherwise, we have no role in informing men about the Lord's work now underway - the restoration of his faith upon the earth, and the eventual establishment of New Jerusalem - beyond providing men with the means to obtain the Holy Ghost.

9.  Is the statement's purpose to give gospel and doctrine?

The statement's purpose is to provide a guide (something which directs behavior) and a standard (something which measures behavior).  As I have remarked above, the only thing that matters is receiving and following the Holy Ghost, which teaches us all that we should know and all that we should do.  With the Holy Ghost we can be led by God; without it we are led by men, or the devil.  The Holy Ghost is therefore our guide.  The law and commandments of Christ are that which our behavior is measured by, and are our principles (rules of behavior).  The doctrine, or gospel, of Jesus Christ informs us how we may obtain the Holy Ghost, which teaches us all that we should know and all that we should do.  Therefore, the doctrine, law, and commandments of Jesus Christ as contained in The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles fulfill the stated purpose of the document, and anything not functionally equivalent to this does not fulfill the stated purpose, but rather usurps the role of the Holy Ghost and causes harm by leading men astray or giving occasion for stumbling.

10.  don't the scriptures already give that?

Yes.  By explicitly making the gospel of Jesus Christ our written G&S, we are putting the focus of this movement on the gospel of Jesus Christ, his rock and his salvation, so that men may obtain the Holy Ghost, which teaches them all that they should know and all that they should do.  If people want to teach more than the rock of Jesus, they're free to - within their own fellowships.

11.  If the purpose of the G&S is to give us a guide on how we govern ourselves, then how does including verbiage outside gospel and doctrine disqualify it?

Let me rephrase your question: "if the purpose of the G&S is to give us sufficient information to receive the Holy Ghost, which teaches men all that they should know and all that they should do, then how does including verbiage from outside of the gospel disqualify it?"  Because it is the role of the Holy Ghost to teach men all that they should know and all that they should do, anything beyond giving the information necessary to receive the Holy Ghost is to usurp the role of the Holy Ghost and thus lead men astray or cause them to stumble.  The Holy Ghost, after all, is our guide, and we are to govern ourselves by it.

12.  "I omit the words of Denver Snuffer and uphold the words of Jesus Christ". Even when Christ speaks thru Denver Snuffer? 

Yes.  Neither you nor I are Denver Snuffer's prophet.  He has repeatedly said he has no spokesman, and I will not fulfill that role.  Denver Snuffer gets to present himself as a witness of the Lord, and men may believe or disbelieve him as they will.  I am not a proponent of Denver Snuffer, nor am I a disciple of Denver Snuffer, nor am I a follower of Denver Snuffer.  Unless the Lord tells me to directly, I am not a witness of a messenger, nor do I testify of a messenger.  The Lord can and does vouch for his own messengers to their hearers by the power of the Holy Ghost.

I do not get to dictate to you or any other man when, or even whether, Denver Snuffer is speaking the words of Christ, and neither do you get to impose his words upon me as though they were Christ's words.  I will not submit to an article of confession of belief in Denver Snuffer's words as though they were the words of Christ, nor a G&S that requires receiving Denver Snuffer's words as though they were Christ's, neither will I impose such upon anyone else.

It is for the Holy Ghost to teach any man whether Denver Snuffer ever speaks Christ's words, and whether they should heed them.  I will not usurp the role of the Holy Ghost.

I will not willingly participate in the formation of another Gentile church based on what the Nazis called the Fuhrerprinzip, meaning the "Leader Principle," with Denver Snuffer as the unwilling Fuhrer.  Those who want such a thing can do it on their own - in their own fellowships.

It is time to determine whether we will follow the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, taking the Holy Spirit for our guide, his law for our standard, and his commandments for our principles, or whether we will follow a man.

It is hard to escape the traditions of our fathers. Let us therefore escape these particular traditions: “When the Prophet Speaks, the Thinking Has Been Done,” “Follow the Prophet, He Knows the Way,” and “The Spirit Moved upon Us, Therefore You Must Take It down Like a Pill.”

Jeremiah 17:5 ¶ Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

2 Nephi 4:34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

2 Nephi 28:31 [Thus saith the Lord:] Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

13.  By that logic why use the words of Luke or Mormon from whom we get the words of Christ that you offer in your statement?

Neither Luke nor Mormon are around to be trusted.  Secondly, the covenant requires us participants to receive the obligations in the Book of Mormon as a covenant - we agreed to, anyways.  The Book of Mormon is clear which words of Christ must be received and obeyed by all.

1 Nephi 13:40-41
40 And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records [Book of Mormon], which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which are of the twelve apostles of the Lamb [New Testament], and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them [New Testament]; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved.

41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

"By the mouth of the Lamb" means by Christ's own mouth in person, not words delivered from Christ in Heaven through a spokesman.  If the Book of Mormon is true, Denver's words, even if they be from Christ, are not the words by which men must come unto Christ.  The words which Christ established by his own mouth in both the Book of Mormon and the New Testament is the Sermon on the Mount (3 Nephi 12-14; Matthew 5-7; Luke 6:20-49).  These are the words by which all men must come unto Christ, or they cannot be saved.  And if we aren't laboring to bring forth salvation to people, we are not the Lord's people.

A thing which hasn't been added to the Restoration Edition scriptures, but if we're canonizing Denver Snuffer's writings, probably should be, is the following statement: 

"If you understood the scriptures you wouldn’t even need what I’ve written."  http://denversnuffer.com/2010/06/be-still-and-know-that-i-am-god/

And, let's ask: how can we come to understand the scriptures?

And we find this answer from Denver Snuffer, in another thing which probably should be added to the Restoration Edition scriptures:

"The journey back to Him begins with all He has provided and preserved of His word. It begins for each of us in the scriptures. One of the immediate effects of baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost is to have the scriptures come alive; to have them overwhelm you with revelation, light and truth. It is not you doing this. It is you experiencing it, but the Holy Spirit opening and lighting them so the same Spirit which gave them at first now receives them in you."  http://denversnuffer.com/2012/08/bfhg-part-2/

Putting these together, according to Denver Snuffer, once you have received the Holy Ghost you don't need Denver Snuffer.  The scriptures, without anything Denver has written, suffice.

Therefore, without a direct commandment by the Lord to me, I will not preach Denver Snuffer, nor agree to any G&S which does, but I will preach the words Christ spoke by his own mouth among the Jews and the Nephites, by obedience to which words men may obtain the Holy Ghost and learn thereby all that they need to know and all that they need to do.  If any wish to teach anything else from anyone else, they are free to - in their own fellowships.

14.  "Without a direct commandment from the Lord I will not say anything about how the fellowships are to govern themselves." What about an indirect commandment from the Lord? What about a suggestion from the Lord? (example from Denver on how Abraham, seeking to be a friend of God acted not by being commanded, but on the suggestion made from a friend)

The point is it has to be from the Lord directly to me, and, in particular, not through a mortal.  With respect to the G&S, there are no relevant exceptions.

15. Isn't this Christ's idea that we come up with a "statement of principals" for the purpose of governing ourselves?

The key word is "ourselves."  If we are equal, then I don't impose on you, you don't impose on me.  If we adopt by mutual agreement The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles, you get to govern yourself, I get to govern myself.  There is nothing in the gospel authorizing one man to rule another.  I don't rule you, and you don't rule me.  I don't judge you and you don't judge me.  If we are the Lord's people, then we will govern ourselves according to the Holy Ghost which teaches us individually all things we should know and all things we should do.  We do not usurp the role of the Holy Ghost for others without a direct command from the Lord, for, as Joseph said, "none but fools will trifle with the souls of men."

16.  "Let us preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, his rock and salvation, lest we commit the same errors as our fathers."  Doesn't that gospel teach us to encourage and persuade one another and regard each other as precious?

We encourage and persuade only as directed by our individual guide, the Holy Ghost, which teaches us all that we should know and all that we should do.  I do not have authority to lead men astray, therefore I will not do it without being directly commanded by God.  I am able, on the other hand, to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, his doctrine, law, and commandments, which does evil to nobody, and that's what I will do.  If we adopt The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles as our G&S, everyone is still free to teach whatever they want in their fellowships, subject only to their own guidance from the Holy Ghost, if they care to be led by the Holy Ghost.

17.  Is your interpretation of the requirement given by Christ in the A&C the only correct interpretation? Is your conclusion the only correct one? 

I would recommend asking of God what he meant.  Here's the formula for such inquiries.

1 Nephi 15:11 
Do ye not remember the thing which the Lord hath said?
If ye will not harden your hearts
and ask me in faith
believing that ye shall receive
with diligence in keeping my commandments 
surely these things shall be made known unto you.

Words mean things, and this is what I take these words to mean, and each is literal:

Guide: something which gives direction for behavior.  The Holy Ghost is to be our guide.
Standard: something which measures behavior.  A law is a standard.
Principle: rules of behavior, as in "I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves," or "Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself."  Commandments are principles.

18.  If you insist that you will not join in accepting anything that falls outside the parameters you have defined as the only correct statement you are willing to accept, where does that leave room to "come together by precept, reason and persuasion"?

You have all been invited to come and reason together about the G&S in humility as equals publicly and openly in a neutral forum established for this purpose: http://remnantofjacobforum.com/viewforum.php?f=37

I am, and have been, quite willing to explain the reasons for what I will and will not accept as a G&S.  If we adopt The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles, you may still do and teach whatsoever you wish within your fellowships, subject only to the guidance of the Holy Ghost, if you care to be led by the Holy Ghost.  You simply aren't able to dictate what I do and teach in mine - or, in other words, you aren't able to usurp the role of the Holy Ghost.  As someone else has said, a society of equals governs themselves, not each other.

As Joseph said, "I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammeled."

19.  You wrote, "He asked us for a statement of principals which rules our behavior" I didn't see that requirement in the A&C.  I did see that He requires "a statement of principals to be adopted by the mutual agreement of my people[.]"

Yes, and principles are rules of behavior.

20.  Does this suggest that "How you proceed must be as noble as the cause you seek"? In other words, the requirement for us to work together on this and come to a mutual agreement is as at least as important as the content of the statement itself.

You'll find that, with respect to the G&S, agreement and content are inextricably linked.  In the Book of Mormon, Jesus gave counsel to remember the Law of Moses.  One of the provisions of the Law of Moses was this: 

Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil: neither shalt thou yield in judgment to the opinion of the majority to stray from the truth (Exodus 23:2).  (Stand firm in the right way against the crowd.)

Alternatively:

Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil: neither shalt thou speak in a dispute in order to bend the majority to pervert [the right way].  (No manipulating the masses during disputes into perverting the ways of the Lord.)

Agreement upon that which tends to bring harm and cursings and misinformation is a bad thing.  Look at the Church.  If you don't know where they went wrong, then you may well be repeating their errors.  Look at the Mafia.  Is their agreement a thing to be admired?  Or what about the secret combinations in the Book of Mormon?  They certainly did profess themselves to be motivated by noble intentions, and they did agree among themselves, and sought to persuade the Nephites to unite with them as equals (3 Nephi 3).

Thankfully, we lack the ability to produce a false unity by use of excommunication against dissenters among the covenant participants.  Therefore, we must of necessity come together and reason in humility as equals, having for our common foundation the rock of Jesus Christ, helpfully contained in The Rock of Jesus Christ: A Statement of Our Principles.  But, once we realize that we do have this common foundation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, then we can realize that the task of writing the G&S has already been done.  All we have to do is agree to what we have all already agreed to by assenting to the covenant offered through Denver Snuffer.

We have until the Lord rejects us to come to this agreement.

The problem thus far hasn't been disagreement, but manipulation of perceptions of agreement in order to go beyond the points in which we actually agree in an attempt to circumvent the requirement for mutual agreement in order to impose the majority's will upon the minority.  If we do not all agree upon the gospel of Jesus Christ, his rock and his salvation, then we aren't his people and he should reject us in favor of a more faithful and diligent group, even if we all agree on something else.